So, I listen to talk radio sometimes. Not Rush Limbaugh or Michael Medved, but Calvary Chapel. I do it mainly because I am naturally a curious person, but sometimes I do not agree with what I hear on the radio from Calvary Chapel. I know that sounds harsh, but hearing about how angry God is with creation simply makes me squirm. When Calvary Chapel initially was founded it was to attract hippies and outcast's to Jesus Christ, but I do not hear that message from them anymore. I was listening to a sermon today from Calvary Chapel, Pasadena and I only heard the end in which the preacher said, "...and the reason that heresy entered into the church was a direct result of women..." What about Marcion, the Gnostics, Pelagius, none of them were women and they were the causes of great amounts of heretical teachings in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries?
I am making a judgment call because I did not hear the context of what he was saying, but in all actuality should it really matter that I didn't hear the context, I mean are you kidding? The preacher then reiterated the I Timothy passage which prohibits women from teaching and says that the context does not matter, i.e. I Timothy was a letter written about Ephesus issues with the temple goddesses and the goddess Diana, but simply that the Bible is the Word of God and it does not change. For more on those issues, N.T. Wright has written about them, and if you only want to read the I Timothy section, scroll down to point # five: click here to read.
The Calvary Chapel Pastor then said, "Men today need to stop being afraid and speak the truth, because it is the Women's Liberation movement which has caused most of the problems today." I also named this blog, "We should not fear", because in my humble opinion fear drives people to preach these sermons. They probably are truly afraid that if they do not hold to what they believe in a strict, literal, interpretation of Scripture as the Word of God, people will fall away from God. I think that if people obey God, NOT out of love for him and all the amazing actions which God has initiated in creation, but instead through an obedience, derived out of fear of "losing control"; life will eventually overwhelm people and the control which they believed they possessed will overcome them. So, the main issue is control, i.e dominance. I hope this makes sense.
What I hear this pastor preaching is that, 'These are simply the Absolute Truths of Scripture, never to change, never to be contextualized within our world, but applied in strict obedience, because God is concerned with obedience.' Of course I am being somewhat facetious in my above mentioned statements, but I still find it perplexing how the concern in churches is not to proclaim the gospel, that our God assumed the flesh of humanity in the life of the Lord Jesus the Christ, then absorbed into his own body the violence of humanity exhibited towards God, died the death of a criminal on a cross, forsaken by humanity, and through the resurrection from the dead was vindicated by God, proclaiming that death has no power over God.
Why is that not the message which we proclaim in our churches. Why are we not talking about living intentionally as the community of faith: sharing, loving, learning to trust each other, and learning to trust in the grace which God has given to us for each day. I heard another person on Christian radio question a caller when the caller talked about how consumerism has created us to believe that we can purchase anything we desire. The Christian radio announcer did not think that being able to buy anything we want is NOT a Christian principle.
In reference to speaking though about the Absolutes of Scripture, I believe we must focus on the particularities before we focus on the universal. It is important to God that our unique qualities which are created by our world be affirmed in Christ. I do think that the dismantling of our worldview needs to take place so that we do not interpret Scripture based upon my own sinful humanity, but we interpret in light of the community of faith. Stanley Hauerwas has a quote which my friend Michael DeFazio quoted on his blog, which says, "In Hauerwas' book "Unleashing the Scripture", where he argues that the first task of the church in America is to get the Bible out of the hands of individual North American Christians. This is admittedly hyperbolic, but his point stands: people are not capable of rightly hearing Scripture on their own - none of us are, "scholars" and "laypeople" alike - not least because we need each other to discipline our sinful tendency to see what we want to see, what will confirm our present convictions, what will prove our arguments."
This is why I enjoy the teachings concerning "The Historical Jesus", because understanding the history of Jesus enables us to understand how deeply affected God is by our world, "good and evil".
"The historical Jesus and the kerygmatic Christ (kerygmatic, meaning New Testament proclamation) must once again be brought into unity." (James Dunn) I will close with one last comment by Jurgen Moltmann in "The Crucified God" which I have been reading and enjoying immensely.
"His preaching was literally the same as that of John: "The kingdom of God is at hand", but the content of his preaching of this imminent kingdom was different. The kingdom does not come as judgment, so that one must anticipate it in one's self through repentance in order to endure. Rather, anticipated by the word of the gospel which Jesus preached and his living offering of himself to the poor, the sinners, the tax-collectors, it comes as the unconditional and free grace of God, by which the lost are sought out and those without rights, and the unrighteous, are accepted. It is this different and new righteousness of God promised and demonstrated by Jesus which separates him from John the Baptist and his repentance movement in Israel."
Moltmann, Jurgen: The Crucified God: The Historical Trial of Jesus: page 130: Fortress Press: MN: 1993.
Therefore, our proclamation of his resurrection must be stated from the "I"- "Thou" encounter, which means that we do not say, "He said...", since we would only speak of someone who was dead in that manner, but we proclaim the life of Jesus in the present. Jesus saw the past, present, and future in his own life. This is why we believe that Jesus opened the kingdom of God here and now. Anyways, I do not think that the pastor at Calvary Chapel is intentionally preaching something which he does not believe, but his "belief in belief in God" has transcended the present day call to embody the life of Jesus. "The only way to live with the hope in the present is to believe that God will justify in the future." (Miroslav Volf)
8 comments:
good post! i like hearing your thoughts about control and fear. at the risk of sounding like a professor, i say "very well written". i especially appreciated the phrase "absorbed into his own body the violence of humanity exhibited towards God."
danilele
Thank you so much for the complement. I had another conversation yesterday with someone in regards to fear, how it determines what we think about freedom. If we live in fear, we will attempt to violently exhibit attitudes which attempt to secure freedom from what we perceive as a threat, but in all actuality we are becoming slaves to this "fear" in the process. I do think that the law of love overpowers this fear to truly "free" us to follow the way of Christ. Thanks.
Paul...Calvary Chapel is a good organization that still teaches people about the word of God and helps people in a real and personal way. In all of my experiences with Calvary Chapel, i have seen good people that love God and love helping others. I have been greatly influenced by the teaching of Calvary Chapel and i dissagree with your assessment that they are male chauvenist bigots. As you and i have discussed, there are times when i will listen to them and hear something that i will disagree with but that will be true of most Christian teachers that i hear. There will often times be things that come up that i don't agree with but they are still brothers and sisters in Christ. Another thing is, Calvary Chapel is not talk radio. They are playing sermons that are pre-recorded except for some broadcasts on Wednesday nights and on Sunday mornings are live. One of the things that i really like about Calvary Chapel is that they go through the Bible from cover to cover. They don't stop for a "Fathers Day Message" or even a Christmas message. They read through the entire bible that some churces are afraid to do because they think that by reading those "boring" passages they will lose their audience. But they teach through books like Numbers and Jeremiah in a way that teaches the congregation and points them to a stronger relationship with the God who loves them.
Hey, I do agree with what you say about them being "brothers and sisters in Christ", that is never anything I am questioning. You are my brother and you disagree with me, that will never change.
But what would happen if no one ever spoke up and questioned the fact that what the preacher said about women is not based upon Scripture, nor tradition, but maybe that person's own issues involving women? Another point is that I don't think that the pastor's are "male chauvenist bigots", and I never said that, but simply his statement needed to be looked at and questioned. As my friend, you question me all the time, which is healthy, because I am never always right. The problem is that because it is on the radio and people who do not know any different will not be able to ask questions, but will believe that what he said is the Absolute Truth, which it is not, so that is the issue.
Is anything done through fear, not "fear of the Lord" as we understand it, but fear of sinning, or fear of "losing control" as I mentioned? What we will do is separate ourselves from everything we think will cause us to stumble, which in turn will "weaken our faith". It is the paradox of the cross.
So, I wanted to know what you thought about fear and is it dangerous and do you think that it can drive someone to interpret Scripture to secure a place in heaven, instead of understanding that our goal is not heaven, but God himself, i.e. the resurrection from the dead?
Fear and fearmongering is something that exists all through Christianity today and has for some time. I think that, to a certain degree, this is a good thing! We tell people something they should fear so that they will do the other thing. To use an everyday example, we tell people that they should drive on the right side of the road because we want them to "fear" hitting someone head on coming the other way. In my home i want my little girl to "fear" our gas insert fireplace. Through discipline, she now points to the fire and says, "Hot!", and does not touch it. In the church, we teach that your actions have consequences. That you will reap what you sow and that if all you sow in your life is pain for those around you, you should "fear" what lies ahead for you. Isn't that a good thing? In your worldview, you believe that taking care of the envrionment is of paramount importance. Isn't there some "fearmongering" that goes along with that theology?
In regards to answering your question about whether or not people use fear to control people in the church or if they use fear to help them interpret scripture a certain way, they answer is absolutely yes. I would even say that there may be pastors within the Calvary Chapel family of churches that use fear to try to interpret Scripture in a harmful way. Calvary Chapel as a whole tries to give their pastors a lot of freedom within their church. To my knowledge, there is oversight but it is gentle. That is really where it becomes difficult. Lets say you, Paul Pace, started a church and a few years into it somebody in your church came to you and said, "I really like the format of this church and i would like to plant a church 1000 miles away and use the same name." Then, lets say that happened 1000 times and now when you are 80 years old you look out and here are a million people or so that attend churches with the same name as the one you started throughout the world. All you were trying to do was to teach Gods word and help people and now people call you the leader of a "movement". What happens when someone at a church 1000 miles away 50 years later says "women have brought heresy into the church" and it is never brought to your attention? Are you responsible for what he said if you never knew that he said it?
My point is that i have never heard any of the Calvary Chapel pastors say that women have brought heresy into the church. At the same time, i know that they take a very literal view of that 1 Timothy scripture and they do hold to the belief that women should not pastor a church which i also agree with. Calvary Chapel is a church organization that has flaws as much as any church organization would. Haven't you heard anything on that station that you can get behind?
Hey Troy, thanks again for the post, I appreciate your thoughts. I think that you want to hold what you read as truthful, faithful, and obedient and I believe that is extremely important. I have heard extremely good points, but the good points are just that "good", they don't need any other dialogue. The points which simply either are not true, or accurate are points that need to be spoken about, or else people will believe that it is true, when it is NOT.
I hear what this station say's, but approximately one billion people in the world are starving to death today. ONE BILLION!! So, one billion people simply chose to not live according to God's standards and are now suffering the judgment of God by not having enough food, right?
Is it because of their sin, or is it because of their leaders, or is it because they were at one point colonized, or is it because other nations hoard food, why do people not have enough food? My friend here, Nick Warnes, (you can access his blog through my blog page wrote an article entitled, "Slavery in Security", please read it and tell me what you think, because it deals with being driven by fear. Being fearful of the consequences of sin may keep me from sinning, but the problem is that simply NOT SINNING does not have that much to do with the gospel, because I will also be a sinner, at least in this life. I can easily create an environment around myself which will absolutely shield me from sin, from temptation, but it will never make me bear the cross through suffering with another human being. I think that only being In Christ i.e. his body will I come to follow Jesus wherever he leads and he usually leads into the ghettos, and into where the poor live. Anyways, good thoughts. Thanks
Paul..."I hear what this station say's, but approximately one billion people in the world are starving to death today." Are you suggesting that Calvary Chapel does not care that people are starving all over the world? Furthermore, are you suggesting that Calvary Chapel teaches that people who have tough situations in their life are in that place because God is punishing them? If they are teaching that then i am with you!!! Down with Calvary Chapel!!! That teaching is wrong and I can think of several passages of scripture that teach against that, primarily the passage where the Pharisees ask Jesus about the crippled boy's sin and Jesus responds, "Neither, but so that you may see the power of God shown before you." Then there's the story of Job and if i gave it more thought i could probably come up with more.
The real point here is, i don't think Calvary Chapel believes that. I think that Calvary Chapel helps the poor in our own communities and around the world. The Nazarene church in our city is sending out another 15 people to Nicaragua to give medical aid for free to anyone who wants it. This is done by Christian doctors who Angela used to work for. In addition to that, my friend Mark participated in a Union Gospel Mission fund raiser recently that was supposed to help a dentist clinic for the homeless. They raised quite a bit to help the homeless in Olympia with their teeth.
I could go on but all of this to ask the question, "We know that there is a problem of poverty in the world, what are we doing about it?" I would submit to you that we don't need to wait until there is a "program" or "agency" to help people, we are the program and agency! Set aside a certain amount of money each month and then pray that God will show you what you are to do with that money each month. Maybe a missionary will come to your church and you will feel that you need to give it there. Maybe there will be a homeless person that you meet and you feel that you need to put them up in a motel for the night. Maybe you will meet someone who has just lost their job and the list goes on. What is God asking you to do to help further His kingdom?
Hey, first of all, I absolutely believe that Calvary Chapel is within the overall body of Christ, and they are our brothers and sisters, but they must be within the overall body, as in one, universal body of Christ, not a distinct entity. This whole conversation, which has gone in varying directions was started because I disagreed with Calvary Chapel's statement about women and I think that they have mis-interpreted I Timothy. That was the reason for the initial post. I think we need to carefully re-examine Paul as a "missionary first", and as a missionary he developed a theology to explain what he was seeing in the Roman world. Thank God Paul didn't proclaim Absolutes or else we would be eating kosher.
I know that between you and me we have had numerous other discussions, but those were not what I was referring to.
Also my thoughts are not simply "my own", but they are shaped and formed by pastors,scholars, and theologians who have examined these idea's so that we do not simply take our own worldview and form God into our image, i.e. what we already believe about the world based only on my own personal experiences, which are deeply flawed because of my sinful tendencies. That is why I quoted Stanley Hauerwas' quote about Scripture being life forming for Communities, not simply for personal lives.
I personally, am also going to be completely biased, because that is what human beings are, biased by my own ideas, thoughts, opinions...I do not believe we are "blank slates", in which, we are not influenced by our current worldview.
Maybe it is simply too difficult for me to deny what I know, which is that life is not the same for all people, therefore, we need to be careful about "Absolutes", since God is the only Absolute, but that means that John 1:14 is true, and God has "assumed our humanity", all humanity, and the cross has already dealt with evil in the world, whereby God himself took it into his body; that means we are "all accepted" into his body. That is the gospel, i.e. the "Good news".
I also think that sometimes I need to be more accepting myself of other interpretations. I never claim to know everything, I would be foolish to think that way.
The Israelites thought that Torah in the life of Israel was "The way, the truth, and the life", but Jesus then re-interpreted the Torah around himself, so that he is now "the way, the truth, and the life", we must then embody that within our own communities, which is what you said about those churches, that is what they are doing.
Talk soon, Paul
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