What we believe shapes our lives. If I believe that God is going to one day destroy the earth, along with most of the people, then that will shape how I think God interacts with humans, meaning that God is a God of wrath. If I take the Old Testament to be God's "perfect design" for how nations should be, then it will directly affect what I believe the U.S. does. What I am saying is that without de-constructing the system itself, humans are destined to repeat the mistakes. Which is why the Church in Christendom committed the same offenses which were committed by ancient Israel. Paul Jewett in "Our Dignity as Human" said that it only took the church two generations after Jesus to re-establish a patriarchy again, after Jesus dismantled it.
I find that in our current society of Christianity, we are extreme people. If I believe something about God, then 'it has to be true.' I just read this book called, "Tuesday's with Morrie", and the main character Morrie Schwartz (real person) stood up in the middle of a college basketball game as the crowd was chanting, "We're number one, we're number one!", and he screamed, "What is wrong with being number 2?!"
I was having another conversation with someone yesterday, which I do often, because as a Christian I feel it is important to speak with other people on a consistent basis. :) As I was having this conversation, this person was remarking concerning a decision they made by saying, "I don't think that it is wrong." I asked them, "Why is it a matter of right and wrong?" I asked them, "Do you think it is sinful?" They stated, "No, not at all." I was perplexed then as to why so much in our Christianity is determined as "right and wrong". I would of course say it is an Enlightenment mindset, that we must determine logical conclusions for our actions, in order to bring a semblance of security to our lives. That is a mouthful, but I think it is true. I finally said to this person, "It is not a question of 'right and wrong' as what we have determined those words mean, but it is a question of "Am I following after what God is doing with and among the people in this world?"
3 comments:
Just making sure this works!
Ok, now that i know this works, here goes.
Paul, you and i speak often and at length about the things of God. I love that about our relationship and i get so much out of it! You continually make me think and that is a good thing! In regards to your blog here, there are probably other things that i could bring up to disagree with but i want to take issue right now with your statement, "I was perplexed then as to why so much in our Christianity is determined as "right and wrong"."
The reason that we see things as right or wrong in Christianity is because of what the Bible says about right and wrong. Let's look at what Jesus says about right and wrong in Matthew 18:17-19:
"Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.'"And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector." (NKJV)
Ouch! Those are kind of harsh words for a person who claims Jesus is all about forgiveness! But i will save that for a response to another blog. The point is clear. Jesus believes in confrontation against people who say they believe in God but do not act according to the will of the Father. i know that you believe this, too and that it is for this reason that you rail against the norms of Christanity. So WHY would you say that there is no right or wrong?!! Clearly there is a right and wrong.
Here in the Northwest and i am sure it is the same in Southern California, we are continually combating various forms of Christianity. Maybe in the Bible belt they don't have the things that we have but here, we have people who teach that S&M is a way to learning more about the God/Believer relationship. We have people who say that Jesus is one of many ways to heaven. And, since Seattle is the highest per capita city in the nation for college graduates, we have a large portion of our society that believe they are smarter than God and certainly smarter than any Christian. Being a Christian here means knowing what you believe down to the last drop. For if you do not know what you believe or why you believe it, if you are one who does not know right and wrong in God's word, then you will be dismissed and relegated to the ash heap of Christianity.
Now on one hand i know that you belive that there is good and evil and that there is right and wrong. Hence that portion of the Lord's prayer, "Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil." Clearly you understand there there is good and evil in this world. I assume that you mean, why do we split hairs in Christianity? Why don't we leave gray areas alone? Then i would say that it is for the same reason you don't leave gray areas alone. You, PaulPace, continually bring up the point of how Liberty University supports the constitution of the United States as part of their doctrinal statement. Is this a gray area or is this (gasp!) right or wrong? When Jerry Falwell comes out and says that Hurricaine Katrina was brought about by God's judgement against the homosexuality of that city, is that right or wrong? When the pastor of a church comes forward that he had an affair with another woman and the church immediately forgives him and affirms him to stay on as senior pastor, is that right or wrong? When the pastor of a church says that the resurrection of Jesus Christ is not important and that we should really focus on how Jesus lived, is that right or wrong?
You say that in determining right or wrong for our own actions we are trying, "to bring...security to our lives." I will give you that humans do try to add security to their lives through rules and regulations. However, this is for someone who is outside of Christianity. My boss, who is a great guy and the nicest non-Christian that i know, belives that his sense of right or wrong comes from within. I reject this teaching because the same sense of right or wrong is not in everyone like it is him. If it were, GREAT! but it is not. Right or wrong was a big deal to Jesus, Paul. Please check this out from Matthew 18:6, "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
Again, OUCH! It is so clear to me that Jesus believes there is a right and a wrong and that we should too. What i take from this verse is that we, as believers in God and His Son whom He sent, (John 17:3), we need to be very careful what doctrine we are preaching. "Little ones" could mean kids under twelve but i think that it also means adults who are new in the faith. We need to be so careful what we are teaching them for if we don't it would be better that we were to tie a millstone around our neck and dive into the Mariana Trench. If it were not true, then why would James say in James 3:1, "My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.?"
Lastly, i do hope that i have spoken the truth in love today. Ephesians 4:14,15 "...that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ--"
Thanks for listening, Paul and may God continue to bless you richly as you seek His truth.
Hey glory, thanks for the post. We often speak concerning many things and sometimes I want you to see things from my perspective. (as if there were no other perspectives,:))
What I am saying concerning 'right and wrong', is not explicitly related to sin, or to evil. In order for me to understand right and wrong, it can not be simply within the framework of morality, which can actually be drive a wedge between God and his world, because of the innate immorality within humanity.
Scripture, (the Bible) I believe, 'is conceived within the framework of salvation history, not salvation history conceived within the framework of the Bible.' (Oskar Skarsaune) This is the reason sometimes that if I simply tell people what scripture say's, the question remains, "but how does it relate to the reality of life?" In my post on the Resurrection, I said that people will still ask, "Why should I choose your religion over any other?" There are other moral principles to live by.
Jesus was not incorporating a new religion, but a entirely new way of being, which is why the marginalized, outcasts, (what we call "Losers") of society embraced his message.
Jesus placed what he said within the framework of what he was doing, which is salvation history.
I know that I am carrying on much too long.
The last point is that when Jesus went to the cross, in every way possible, it seemed wrong, and by all standards 'was wrong'. It was completely unjust, evil, and downright "wrong", but yet he submitted himself to the will of the Father. This is what I mean when I say that doing what God wants in the world, sometimes transcends our definitions of 'right and wrong'.
I always enjoy the conversations though. Thanks Bro.
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